Controversy Wednesday: CALLING QUITS ON BREASTFEEDING

1 Dec

Disclaimer: This post is about breastfeeding because that is what I am doing.  This in no way reflects on those of you who choose/chose formula for your baby.  I am a firm believer that breastfeeding doesn’t work for everyone, so more power to ya.  However, this is what I know and experience, so please bear with me if the breastfeeding discussion doesn’t apply to you.  Thank you.

Long ago and far away, I was a yuppy working in an office.  One day, a client came in with her five-year-old son to take care of some business.  In the middle of said business, the son looked up at the client and announced, “Mommy, I want milk.” 

Now, remember, I was a clueless young woman with no intention of ever having children.  I thought he was asking for a cup of milk, so I offered to grab some from the convenience store next door.  “That’s okay,” said the client.  “He’s asking to nurse.  Do you mind if I do?”

“Mommy, I waaaaaant MIIIIIIIIILK!” the child persisted, though now that I understood what was really going on, he may as well have been speaking King James English.  Mother, prithee offer thy breast that I might not expire forthwith.  Seriously, he seemed that mature.

I said of course I didn’t mind and the mother proceeded to whip out her left breast (quite deftly, after so many years of practice) and breastfeed the child right there in my office.  Not knowing how to react, I went with my first instinct, which was to stare.  And then my second instinct: to call Jake and tell him everything.

“Freaky,” he said over the phone.  “If we ever have kids, we’ll never let it go that far, right?”

“We’re not having children, remember?” I quipped, and hung up the phone.

And now here we are, eight years later with a 22-pound, three-foot-long baby that I am breastfeeding four to five times per day. 

I think he's getting enough.

Things have definitely changed since I saw the five-year-old manchild nurse in my office.  I’m committed to breastfeeding Seabass for one year because

  1. breastmilk is the most perfect, complete food for him
  2. it’s free
  3. it’s easy (at least NOW it is – remember how hard it was before?)
  4. every medical professional and their mother says to do it for at least that long.

There’s another reason we’re sticking with breastfeeding: We both really like it.  I never thought I’d say that.  Seabass wakes up once in the middle of the night to breastfeed about two or three times per week.  Ever since he started sleeping longer stretches, I have never once minded getting up at 3am to feed him.  There is something so fulfilling, peaceful, and beautiful about a mother satisfying her child’s hunger in the quiet hours of the early morning, and I’m honored to serve Seabass that way.

Whoa.  Did I really just SAY that?!?

Anyway, even though I’m definitely enjoying breastfeeding at 6 1/2 months, I’ve been feeding Seabass solids irregularly since he hit four months of age.  I hadn’t planned on starting so early, but Dr. Awesome suggested that introducing rice cereal at four months might calm Seabass down a little.  I don’t know that it did, but he enjoys the process, and we love watching him attack the spoon with reckless abandon. 

How do the sweet potatoes wind up above his eye, I ask you?

The real adventure with solid foods isn’t so much at the mouth end of things, let me tell ya.  Since we started fruits, vegetables, and the occasional grain, this kid’s butt has been working overtime to gross us out.  My favorite poops are after he’s had quinoa grains.  They come out looking exactly like they did going in.  (Which reminds me of a story.  When my brother Dusty was a baby, I distinctly remember my mom opening his diaper one day to discover an intact rubber band.  Now he is a father of two kids of his own.  How time flies.)

I’ve heard horror stories of women who encountered crazy amounts of criticism from older generation folks who thought breastfeeding past a couple months was weird or unnecessary or unhealthy.  Thankfully, I have only received a very little bit of mild concern on this front, usually because someone was worried about my mental health and independence.  (Seabass won’t take a bottle, so we’re pretty much joined at the hip, er, boob.)

But what if Seabass and I decide to nurse for another few years?  What would people say then?  At a pre-birth breastfeeding class, the lactation educator said that many babies across the world nurse until their seventh birthday.  SEVEN YEARS OLD?  That’s the year I started piano lessons.  I’m sorry: If Seabass can play the Can-Can Polka on the piano and he’s still nursing, I authorize you to confront me on it.

I have a dear friend who was committed to nursing her baby until he turned one year, but even now at fifteen months, they’re still going strong.  “I only nurse him once when he wakes up and once when he goes down at night,” she says.  “I don’t know how I’m still producing milk for such a small bit of nursing, but we’ll keep going until I dry up or he decides he doesn’t want it anymore.”

I don’t know if I can be that selfless.  Much as I enjoy nursing my baby, I’m very much looking forward to being able to leave him with someone for longer than an hour and a half.  But who knows?  Maybe I’ll be too whistful for Seabass’ babyhood to stop at one year.  It’s entirely possible.

Enough outta me.  What do you think?  When did/will you stop breastfeeding and why?

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42 Responses to “Controversy Wednesday: CALLING QUITS ON BREASTFEEDING”

  1. shotwellwallace December 1, 2010 at 10:40 am #

    1. I honestly have no idea when we’ll stop breastfeeding, although the plan was to go for a year. Now I’m thinking that if we’re still both enjoying it I’m definitely open to going for longer (he’s 9 mo now). Although he has bitten me a couple of times since getting his new teeth, and if that continues I may have to cut him off.
    2. LOVE the reference to the Can Can Polka. I think I surprised myself by actually recognizing the name of that song. Oh, the memories…

    • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 11:31 am #

      I’m a piano teacher. Those songs are burned on my brain.

  2. mamasowould December 1, 2010 at 10:41 am #

    I will never forget the first time I saw an older kid nurse. We had just discovered that A PRIEST at our school (Eastern Orthodox, so apparently perfectly virtuous)had a wife and a kid. They were speaking in our class, and the kid was about 5…we were all sitting around in a circle discussing something like fidelity or some such nonsense, and this kid SITS DOWN AND UNBUTTONS HIS MOTHER’S BLOUSE AND UNDOES HER BRA. I thought I would be scarred for life. I apparently got over it, because I went on to nurse child #1 for 15 months–and he would still be nursing if we’d gone with his opinion on stopping (he’s 23 now) The next two didn’t even make it a year. Too busy following their brother around. Both stopped at 9 mos and went straight to cow’s milk. Nobody died.

    • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 11:32 am #

      Oh. Oh Em Gee.

  3. Angela Bolduc December 1, 2010 at 10:57 am #

    Jamie- your posts are so well written and I look forward to reading all of them so thanks for keeping up with this blog during such a busy time! I nursed my son for a year and my daughter for 13 months…. Being the first born that I am I took the doctors recommendation as a rule to follow. I support all methods of feeding, but I have to admitt, I am uncomfortable with the nursing of kids who can ask for milk 🙂 Between the teeth, the ackward holding of a toddler, pumping in public restrooms while on business trips and the pulling of my shirt in public, I found that around a year was a good time to ween.

    It’s the most beautiful thing I remember from my kids’ babyhood but was happy to get my body back too! Good luck and keep enjoying that cute little Seabass!

  4. matt December 1, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    I’m a clueless guy but I’ve heard that it’s good for their immune system development, or some nonsense, to nurse for at least a year or so. I’m sure the length of time changes depending on who you talk to. I was also under the impression that one continues to produce milk as long as the child continues nursing, so there’s no “running dry”. This topic reminds me of a video a few female friends played for me a few months ago. I couldn’t believe what I saw. I want to share it with you all.

    A little documentary on Breastfeeding at 8 yrs old

    • matt December 1, 2010 at 11:06 am #

      Sorry if the still for the video offends anyone. Thought posting the link would only be seen as a link on this page!

      • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 11:33 am #

        Is it okay to be honest here? This makes me uncomfortable. These people make me uncomfortable. The whole thing makes me want to run run run away.

        And yet I admire how selfless this woman is. Not I, said the fly.

      • Hannah R December 2, 2010 at 1:51 pm #

        Jamie- I’m with you- makes me a little uncomfortable too. I can see the “health benefits” but lets be honest…EIGHT!!! Come on! That’s halfway to 16! and what like 4 years from puberty. Odd. And really is it selfless?

      • Sheri December 2, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

        I think I’m going to have nightmares….

  5. Oma December 1, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    I stopped at 13 months with you, and STRUGGLED with guilt when I stopped with your brother at 6 months. It seemed like the world as I knew it would come to an end if I quit before he was a year old ~ now I look back and wonder why I took it so hard. By the way, before anyone says anything about that rubber band, I DO know how dangerous that was and how lucky we were that it passed all the way through….just saying.

    • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 11:49 am #

      No judgement here. The way Seabass is going, we’re bound to find a whole cell phone in his diaper.

  6. Jill Whitacre December 1, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    My goal was to breastfeed for a year. After a very rough start, by the grace of God (and consultants), we made it. Just a few days ago, J decided to call it quits. I thought I was ready, but I was a little sad for a day or two. I kept asking him if he wanted to nurse and he consistently shook his head and pushed me away. I guess it is best this way since it has been no big thing to him to move exclusively to cow’s milk. Now that I am sitting squarely back in reality, I am thankful he has weaned himself so I can have a suck-free existence for the next six months before starting over.

    • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 11:49 am #

      He graduated! Go J!

  7. EntrepreMother December 1, 2010 at 11:53 am #

    Still nursing at 10 months… plan to go until she’s 1 year and then reevaluate… still loving it, but not as much as I used to.

    In all honesty, I’m getting a little tired of having to share my body with both my baby and my husband, if you know what I mean. It’s beginning to make me feel like I’m always on-call. But as I hope to be married for many years, and I don’t hope to do the same with breastfeeding, the baby’s gonna have to be weened at some point in the next 2-10 months, or so.

    • jaimeclewis December 1, 2010 at 12:09 pm #

      Understood.

  8. Auntie K December 1, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    I nursed my baby for about a year. I think I was ready to quit before he was but he was no longer breastfeeding for nutrition at that point & not really doing it for very long towards the end.

    Not sure I agree that the video woman is being selfless by breastfeeding her school age children. The part about how they consider her breasts to be theirs (at their age) is uncomfortable to me- as in a boundry blurred.

    And, if I may be so bold to suggest that anyone considering cow’s milk- to look into the pros and cons of doing so- concerning calcium & hormone issues.

    Love the rubber band story!

  9. marinasleeps December 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm #

    OK with my first child, I stopped when I found out I was pregnant with her sister. This was at 18 months of age. My second daughter didn’t ever really like breastfeeding. That didn’t stop me and continued til she was 6 months and half and was already on solids.And I am pretty sure I dried up. My third child was forced to stop. I got pneumonia like three months shy of his 1st birthday. I miss it but eventually you dry up. You do. Especially when he eats more solid, breast feedings will be scarce.

  10. kendra December 1, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    Planning on going for a year. I started to dry up when training, and walking in the Susan G. Komen 3day for a cure. I am now on supplements to get the supply up. Four more months till Hazel is 1, fingers crossed that the supply can meet the demand.

  11. Nikki December 1, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    I have nursed all four of my little ones. It’s by far the easiest and cheapest option for me. However, I can say that now…I sure didn’t think it was easy before, especially the first time around. I used to loathe how much time it took and how I had to share my body. But the free aspect won me over. Nevertheless, over time, the more children I’ve had, the more I’ve come to appreciate the downtime and relative quiet that comes when nursing. And truly, I’ve really learned to love the whole process. Also, being able to eat cookies without guilt helps too…if I’m being honest. All of my children have nursed for at least a year and some past that. But I’ve always gotten pregnant again and so, as a result, they weaned themselves when they were ready. Now when I think about not nursing a baby, it makes me a bit sad. Enjoy the time!

  12. Lisa R December 1, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    Ok, the video weirds me out too, and we nurse “a long time” by US standards. Before our first was born, we took a lactation class and decided that our goal was 2 years and we went just past that mark. Our son got salmonella on vacation right around 24 months and I was BEYOND THANKFUL to be able to nurse him. I was able to comfort him and keep him hydrated when he wouldn’t and couldn’t take in anything else. Even the ER doctor said he was lucky we were still nursing.

    Our #2 just turned 1 and has been so gaggy and slow to get onto solids, so we’ll probably go two years with him. Once my little ones are well onto solids, the nursing is usually just a couple times a day, very relaxed, and not really public. I really just like the idea of giving them milk made perfectly for their bodies for as long as possible. We also give our first son goat’s milk, per our pediatrician’s suggestion, since it is closer to human breast milk and easier to digest.

    Also, not that I’m endorsing either organization, but the World Health Oranization and the UN recommend breastfeeding for 2 years, as opposed to the AAP’s 1 year.

  13. Kimmy D December 1, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    I’ve seen that video before and have always felt like it gave people who get squeamish regarding extended breastfeeding cannon fodder. Even my youngest sister nursed until she was four and I swear it was never that weird.
    I always thought I would nurse my kids since my mom had my siblings starting when I was twelve and she nursed all three of them. My sister nursed for about a year, my brother eight months, and my aforementioned littlest sister nursed for almost four years. I witnessed the ease, economy, convenience, and closeness breastfeeding offered and thought it seemed like a no-brainer.
    When I had my daughter I thought it would be so easy and it was anything but. If my mother hadn’t been staying with me to help out and I didn’t have such a supportive husband, not to mention some kick-ass lactation consultants, I probably would not have been successful. She didn’t latch at first and it was VERY hard-earned and almost didn’t happen. I’ve never cried more over something that didn’t involve a death. I nursed my daughter until just after her 2nd birthday. We never set a stop time. I had decided we would continue until one or both of us were not interested in nursing anymore and that is exactly what happened. A day went by and when she asked to nurse I just told her it was all gone. She tried to nurse for a minute and then got bored and asked to read a book. And, I might add, the gradual wean was MUCH easier than the harsh cold-turkey wean my friends experienced. There were tales of engorgement, benadryl, cabbage leaves, ace bandages, etc. I was slightly uncomfortable for a day and that was it.
    My son is 19 months old and still nursing. The issue with him, I fear, is that he never attached to a comfort object, a pacifier, or a thumb. Since he was about a year old and could sign “milk,” if he is sad or sick or feeling insecure he asks to nurse. I’ve reduced his nursing to three times a day now (more if he is sick) and even that has been rough. He’s become a super-picky eater the last few months and some days the only protein we can get in him is breast milk. I work 3 days a week and pump when I can’t make it home. I hate my pump with a firey hot passion. Right now the plan is to nurse him until he is about two but that is flexible. Maybe when I become pregnant again he will lose interest. Maybe I will snap one day and say “No more!” Maybe he will decide he is far too busy and important to take the time to nurse. Maybe I will have to introduce myself to cabbage leaves and ace bandages. I hope not.
    I knew I would nurse my kids but what I didn’t realize was how much I would enjoy it. When you don’t enjoy it anymore it’s time to stop, plain and simple. Only you know when that is and just like the decision to breastfeed, bottlefeed, or pump and feed, it is completely individual and personal to your family and anyone that volunteers their opinion is helpful but not the expert.

  14. chris e-e December 1, 2010 at 10:38 pm #

    Stopped nursing Steph at 22 months & Allie at 23 months! They are normally adjusted young women now. I would hope they breast feed their children (if they plan to have them?) for ALL the same reasons you mentioned. Of course, after about the 18th month, they were feeding for comfort, the closeness, and generally in the am or before bed… but not during the day. They didn’t eat solids unti 7 months…

  15. Marie December 1, 2010 at 11:53 pm #

    I had to go back to work when she was 4 months and she was refusing the bottle, it really was either or. I pumped for another 2.5 months till I hardly had anything left. I cried a lot when I had to stop breast feeding her at 4 months but I’m glad she got about 7 months of beast milk. I think we all do what we can, I hope to last a little longer when number 2 comes around.

  16. Hannah Rubalcava December 2, 2010 at 8:39 am #

    First kids 14 months- we stopped because I was pregnant and wanted the break in between kids. She was a wonderful nurser- gentle, never over did it. It was amazing. Kid #2- HOLY CRAP!! surprised I made it 11.5 months- she got milk a little early because she was a BEAST! She bit, dug her nails in, pulled, and never stopped. Surprised we made it…I also was pregnant again and NEEDED the break. Kid #3 7 months and doing great. He is a little turkey sometimes with the occasional bite and fingernails, but I think we will make it the full year, no more no less. (No more pregancies) 🙂

  17. Victoria December 2, 2010 at 10:24 am #

    My son turned 7 months today and we mostly nurse. I am a working mom and unfortunately I am not able to pump enough to supplement when I am gone but when we are together we are nursing all the time. We definitely have times that he nurses for comfort and I love that because it comforts me too knowing that he wants me in that way. Who knows when I will stop. My husband and I said one year but if things keep going this well I say for however long he wants to

  18. J.C December 2, 2010 at 12:19 pm #

    I’m currently breastfeeding my 25month old and my 5 month old. That’s 25months of feeding with no break. My 2yr old shows no signs of being ready to quit, but I don’t feel like I can deny her while her sister is so little and still feeding so much. It’s tiring, but so easy. There is no jealousy between them and I love that. I’m looking forward to her dropping back a bit, as it’s taxing! lol as others have said though, it’s so easy, so convenient. When she gets sick I know she’s still getting enough sustenance to recover quickly, and it’s great for getting some much needed down time. It’s a special thing, that only I can do for her, and we both like those shared moments. So I am happy to do it – but will be happy when I only have to feed one.
    As they get older, on solids etc, you can be away for them for longer which is nice. If they are busy and having fun, they don’t need the boob so much which is great!

  19. Sheri December 2, 2010 at 7:03 pm #

    I definitely think that people should wean their child before they are old enough to remember being nursed. I can’t imagine the scarring the poor child would have as an adult if they could REMEMBER pulling out their mommy’s boob and sucking on it. Don’t get me wrong, I think breast is best, but there comes a time when you need to let go. I don’t know at what age children start to retain long term memories, but definitely stop before then! If a mother wants her child to have the nourishment of breast milk past long term memory stage, why not just express and give it to them in a cup?

    If you’re curious, I stopped at one year. Mostly because the only time she wanted to nurse was in the middle of the night and I wanted to sleep all night. Took away the boob and bang, she slept all night. That said, I wouldn’t nurse past 13-14 months anyway.

  20. SaraMcGRath December 2, 2010 at 10:43 pm #

    oh, so much to say! i was very dedicated, and it was a HUGE struggle for 3 months (latch, supply, etc). we went till 22 months- glad, at 21 months she got very sick inmexico and we had only been BF 1-2 x a day, but all of a sudden, it was constant and i was glad, it was the only comfort and only nutrition she got for a while , as she had stopped eating. at 18 mo we had the opp to stop, i had a small surgery and couldn’t BF 24 hrs (it went easier than expected), but when i though of stopping, it made me cry, so i realized i wsn;t ready. trust your gut reaction (BTW- this is the BIGGEST lesson in motherhood- trusting yourself)

  21. jaimeclewis December 4, 2010 at 1:59 pm #

    Seabass’s Dad slowly weaned himself at about 9 months. He did not like bottles because more interesting stuff was to be found in sippy cups. Then about 2 weeks later I got pregnant with Seabass’s uncle. Nine months was good for him also, but I decided that. Who knows why now.

    • jaimeclewis December 6, 2010 at 12:00 pm #

      Okay. This is another case of the mother-in-law using a computer I’d logged into over Thanksgiving and posting her own comment under my name. I wouldn’t make such a big deal about this if it weren’t for the sentence above: “Then about 2 weeks later I got pregnant with Seabass’ uncle.” Oh no. Oh no, no no no no.

      From now on, I only use my own computer.

  22. lifeintheboomerlane December 5, 2010 at 8:57 am #

    I am so happy that moms now are being told to breastfeed for at least a year. I was told three months. I don’t know that I would have gone a year, since all three of mine weaned themselves before that, but I think it’s a good standard. Like anything else, both mom and baby have to be comfortable, for however long it lasts.

  23. LSP farm December 5, 2010 at 11:08 pm #

    I am still bf going on 17 months.. And I’m 13 weeks pregnant.. I plan on bf as close to baby #2 as possible. Also after my milk comes back in I might pick it back up and nurse both.. My dd does not like cow or goat milk, I would prefer her to drink goat out of the two. But she can bf as long as she likes.

  24. Belinda December 6, 2010 at 7:29 am #

    How long will I continue? When I first started nursing my first baby, it was torture. I hated every minute. It’s the most painful thing I’ve ever done! I swore that I would get through 6 weeks and the reevaluate.

    6 weeks came and went, and we still struggled, but I decided to nurse her until she was at least 6 months old. She officially stopped nursing when she was 14 months old and I was pregnant with the next baby. That baby nursed for 2 and a half years and again, she only quit because I was pregnant. She wasn’t happy about the arrangement, but I was in too much pain to continue.

    My third and last baby is 27 months old now and loves to “nuss” very much. I don’t see him quitting any time soon! Honestly, nursing is the lazy way to soothe a boo-boo or hurt feelings and put a toddler to sleep. I don’t see why anyone would give that up. It’s too easy!

  25. CTCD December 6, 2010 at 7:33 am #

    I have a 13-month old and I definitely fall in the category of, “I’ll do this nursing thing for one year.”

    Even though I work outside the home full-time, my daughter has never had even a drop of formula…and we’re still going strong. She nurses at daycare drop-off & pick up. She nurses when we get home and at bedtime. Since we bedhsare, she nurses throughout the night. I’m not sure when we’ll wean, but I’m not thinking too much about that right now.

    I did, however, find this very interesting: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

  26. Kristen @ Adventures in Mommyhood December 6, 2010 at 7:40 am #

    Great job going with what works for you!

    It’s funny how your ideas about things change. I thought I’d nurse my daughter until she was one. Then, when the time approached I couldn’t fathom why she would “need” my milk one day, but not the next. She nursed until she was 25 1/2 months old. We gently weaned as she was only nursing to sleep and I was pregnant. We cuddled down for bed as I was worried about trying to nurse two kiddos each night. I’m now nursing my son. We’ve been going strong for 8 1/2 months and probably for a long time.

  27. Liz December 6, 2010 at 7:48 am #

    My canned answer when people ask how long I plan to nurse my now 18 month old son is that the WHO recommends nursing until at least two years and then as long thereafter as mutually desired. Yes, my some had teeth, it walking (er, running), and can ask for his “nonnies.”. But honestly, I wouldn’t change a thing. I don’t work full time (I teach private music lessons part time, though), so I do have a lot of time with him. Now that he’s older, he might take some pumpedilk from a cup when he’s with his grandma and I’m teaching, but mostly, we just nurse and he has water if I’m not around.

    So honestly – I plan to continue nursing for as long as we both feel comfortable with it. To me, it’s about way more than just the health benefits. It is an awesome part of our whole relationship, and while he will be able to eventually be able to connect exclusively on snuggles, I don’t want to rush that process on him. He only gets to be little once. 🙂

    All my best to you on this wonderful journey!!

    • jaimeclewis December 6, 2010 at 7:50 am #

      Well when you say it like that, I think I might want to breastfeed Seabass forever. Thanks for the comment!

  28. C December 6, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    I’m currently nursing a 32 month old and a 4 month old. The toddler is only on occasion… Nap, bed, when he’s feeling down.. Sometimes he will skip a day. I have no problems with it but I don’t NIP with him. Mostly because he’s big and I can’t hold him correctly. I’ll nurse my 4 month old out and about but I tell my 2.5 year old no quite a bit.

  29. Gwendolyn December 6, 2010 at 9:06 am #

    My son is 13 months old this week and I’m still breastfeeding. I enjoy him never getting sick. Most kids I’ve known have stopped at 2.5 or 3 years of age, the same time when they started potty training.

  30. monica December 6, 2010 at 9:53 am #

    Still BF at 8 months and am aiming to do so until the age of 1 but I definitely don’t see anything wrong with BF until 2 years old or maybe even 3. For longer periods than that I personally wouldn’t but I respect those who do as it is a personal parenting decision and only a mother and child can decide. It is preferable to nurse for longer periods of time than to not nurse at all or not enough.

  31. Chelsea December 6, 2010 at 10:01 am #

    My daughter is almost 15 months, and still nursing a LOT. I love our relationship, from the sweet way she asks for milk as soon as I walk in the door (I work up to seven days a week at a high end horse barn), to the way she asks for the other side after she’s drained the first. I personally don’t feel imposed upon at all, although I can definitely see how one could feel that way. I plan on going until she weans herself, although I certainly don’t want to go for seven years, either. I find I love our nursing relationship more and more as it evolves, and really had no problem teaching her to not bite-take away the boob once or twice, and they learn it’s really not worth it, lol.

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